Thursday, June 12, 2008

President Obama?

It is close to impossible to predict accurately for public persons, whose birth times, and sometimes even dates, are generally unknown or incorrect. Nevertheless, predicting for them is challenging and rewarding in publicity, and hundreds of astrologers keep testing various times for the same charts, discussing each other’s opinions (although the only proof of the correctness of the data is the prediction that comes true).

The most discussed public figures at the moment are, indeed, US presidential candidates. In the recent UAC08, there was an announcement, which was considered as rather reliable, about Barack Obama’s birth in Honolulu on August 4, 1961, at 19:11.

I emailed Sri K.N.Rao asking his opinion about the chart for this time, because I had lots of doubts regarding the Jyotish chart for 19:11, where in three major vargas (rasi, navamsa and dasamsa) rulers of 10th houses were placed in 6th, hardly promising the high elevation Obama has already achieved.

Sri K.N.Rao generously shared his estimate of the time, pointing at 13:06. As I understand it, it was a result of his thorough rectification, and thus I felt confident to look at the chart for forecast.

In this chart, Atmakaraka (AK) is Mars, Amatyakaraka (AmK) is Sun, Putrakaraka (PK) is retro Jupiter and Darakaraka (DK) is retro Saturn, which is also vargottama in own sign Capricorn and yogakaraka (ruler of 4th and 5th) for Libra ascendent.

The chart is very strong, with multiple Rajayogas, exalted ruler of 10th, Amatyakaraka in 10th house and Atmakaraka in fruitful 11th house, with powerful Rahu. 10th house is very energised by aspects of four planets.

In his present Vimsottari mahadasa of Jupiter (ruler of 10th house in dasamsa), from August 2008 to May 2009 Obama will be running antardasa of Sun (AmK in 10th in rasi) - this gives him a real chance. Yet, in dasamsa his 10th is on the Rahu-Ketu axis, and most Jaimini yogas disappear, except AmK-DK - and that's with Rahu.

Note that after antardasa of Sun, there comes antardasa of Moon (2009-2010), which is aspected by Jaimini rajayoga of Amk-DK. His wife’s involvement in his campaign is well-known (DK aspecting 10th in dasamsa), and this influence can become more pronounced in the next antardasa – with influence of Nodes. But this is later.

In Chara Dasa, at the time of November elections he will be running Virgo-Scorpio-Aries pratyantardasa (and on the day of the elections, time 13:06 promises Cancer and Leo sookshma-antardasas, which is really impressive: these are again 10th and 11th houses with AK and AmK). From Virgo, AmK Sun in placed in 11th; from Scorpio, AK is placed in 10th. In dasamsa, Virgo-Scorpio-Aries contain all four AmK, AK, PK and DK, and houses are 4th, 6th and 12th. This looks as a troublesome but rewarding period. This is the time to achieve.

The ruler of dasamsa 10th house Jupiter is retro in 6th under double aspect of malefics, Mars from 12th and Saturn from 4th. In fact, this and the ruler of dasamsa ascendent Mercury in 12th aspected by Jupiter, retro Saturn and Mars explain some of the career events in his past.

If Obama becomes president in November, 13:06 is the correct time of his birth.

After posting this text, I received news about Obama's published birth certificate with time 19:24. As I mentioned above, rectifying birthtime is always tricky. When we attempt it, we bring, together with our knowledge, our illusions about the native, which we imprint in the rectification. I think, considering 13.06 chart, Obama was idealised - and my opinion about him, without chart, was rather different. As I look at this new chart, I am coming back to my old opinion.

Yet another problem is that several times may describe the native similarly well, taking into account all the life events etc.

Good exercise. Although I am not sure about his presidency now.

Update of 06.05.2011. The recently published Obama's certificate seems to be not genuine, which is explained in the following video (four parts).


indira said...

I had read your analysis on the journal of astrology web page. Since that web page does not allow to post more than one comment, I am writing this comment here.

I had looked into his natal, navamsha and dasamsha charts with 7:24 birth time. Actually, the indications for his victory in November are very strong. The 10th lords in navamsha, dasamsha are strong. The dasha period (Ju/Mo/Me)is also favorable. I also think that because of 8/12 lorship influences (Jupiter and Su in natal and navamsha, his vicroy will be associated with sickness or scandal. His first major senate win came after his republican opponent had withdraw after a big corruption scandal. I suspect that this pattern may repeat itslef.

Indira Govindan

Valerie Livina said...

Hello Indira,

Thank you for your comment. I see in that page that there is yet another question about a revision. I will check if it is possible to submit one, and then, probably over the weekend, will post it there.

btw, in his western 19:24 chart I do not like Jupiter and Saturn in 12th, both retrograte in opposition with Sun - this explains, in particular, wins in the past.


Krish said...

Hi Valerie,
At the end of the post you have mentioned, not sure about OB's presidency now, what does it mean? Please explain it clearly.

I was reading some other blog and he mentioned taking 7.24 in account, OB will be in more troubles.

Valerie Livina said...

Hello Krish,

I finished the update with that phrase because the new chart was not that impressive and required a further reading.

I am going to work on it, probably over the weekend, and they I will post it.

Thank you for visiting.


Valerie Livina said...

As I was asked to post a revised text according to time 19:24, here I attempt such a revision.

Yes, 19:24 chart too explains Obama's elevation, because of very strong lagna and 7th house in rasi, and ruler of 7th in dasamsa placed in 1st aspected by Jupiter. Note also the double aspect of retro Jupiter and Saturn on 10th house of dasamsa and aspect of retro Jupiter in Pisces on 7th in navamsa. As I mentioned earlier, 11th house has 39 bindhu in sarvastakavarga (31 in 10th house), which gives power to achieve. Note also Rahu in 10th in navamsa. There are several Jaimini yogas involving AK and DK (in rasi), AmK and DK (in dasamsa), AK-AmK-PK with retro DK (in navamsa): his spouse is strongly involved.

Looking at Vimsottari dasa, during the November elections Obama will be running Jupiter-Moon-Mercury. Jupiter is detrimented in Capricorn, digbala in Lagna, and aspects (retro) 10th house in dasamsa. Jupiter is not in its best state, either in dignities, or in rulership, but it is clearly prominent in this chart. Moon is exalted in rasi in 5th, and Mercury is in own house in 2nd in dasamsa (speeches).

In Chara dasa, he will be running Aquarius-Scorpio-Aries, Aquarius being 10th in dasamsa, Scorpio – 10th in rasi, Aries contains Moon in both navamsa and dasamsa (Moon ruling 7th in rasi). From Aquarius, 10th is aspected by AmK Sun, DK Saturn and Jupiter (Jaimini aspects). From Scorpio, 10th contains AK Mars and is aspected by Jupiter and Saturn (DK). From Aries, 10th contains Jupiter and Saturn and is aspected by AK Mars.

Although this chart is less impressive than that of 13:06, I think it shows presidency too. Note though involvement of 8th and 12th houses in all three vargas (rasi, navamsa and dasamsa).

Valerie Livina said...

In the western 19:24 chart, Jupiter is on MC by antiscia, ruling 2nd and 11th. Fame and power due to support of friends (think about Buffet).

indira said...


I wonder if you have been reading the articles posted by Col. Gaur on the Journal of Astrology on the presidential elections. He is still using 13: as the birth time for Obama and th birth details for McCain is dubious because McCain's own mom does not remember his time of birth and no birth certificate has been posted anywhere. I am surprised that Mr. Rao who has always cautioned about predicting for ppoliticians has allowed this.

Anyway, I think a much better way of predicting the elections is to look at the charts of the nomination acceptance of the candidates. One only has to look at Obama's nomination acceptance chart and one can see why his win might come out of disaster (all the yoga creating planets whose dasha he is running are in the 8th house).


Valerie Livina said...

Hello Indira,

I apologise for the late reply: I was travelling for several weeks.

Yes, it is always a problem with unknown and questionable birthtime, and at the moment, with all the polls predicting Obama's victory, it is rather uninteresting to try to predict something here, Given McCain data is not accurate.

I also have a lot of postponed work, so I prefer to be an observer in this elections, rather than an involved forecaster.

Yours sincerely


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